ah the sega dreamcast so many innovations including online sega net the vmu the free genre and of course button mashing from scenes in shenmue thats why the dreamcast is the best system ever
This was one of the games I got free from the PSN as an apology for that 2 weeks of downtime they had a while back. Since I wasn't playing online at the time at all, I totally didn't even notice but I gladly downloaded the 2 free games. I probably should go back and play this, if I ever get back into gaming. I've been so non-motivated to game since the third kid decided to suck that last bit of energy I had at the end of the day. I pushed through the pain though and played like 100 hours of Dark Souls (got it for V-Day from the wife) and haven't turned on my machines in over a month. I miss it, but I can't get up the motivation to go jump into yet another 10-100 hour commitment. How depressing is that? The wife is trying too. She bought me Diablo 3 for our anniversary (even after I told her i probably wouldn't play it). And here it sits next to me, sad and alone.
Too bad you missed out on that fancy red lightning. In a world full of unlikable people, isn't being the bad guy the ethical thing to do? I'd like to think my cartoonishly evil decisions were just a fun way of ridding the world of jerks like Cole and Trish.
A lot of your problems are actually easily remedied in-game. I'm not going to be an ass and call you an idiot. If you hate the game that's fine. But I think you should try a few things before you give up.
1. Save often. There's usually only about 10-20 floors between guardians (which are the floors you can teleport to from the ground floor.) I learned that the hard way. Don't be afraid of going back to the ground floor and losing progress. Your party's HP/SP is completely replenished whenever you go back.
2. With those one shot snakes, whatever attack is one-shotting you, find a persona that can block that. I used the MegaTen wiki and some online persona fusion guides religiously. The game is about strategy. There is a way to counter everything. If it's light/dark attacks, there's plenty of personas that can counter those effectively, and you come across party members that can do that a bit later on.
3. If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be on the cusp of having Mitsuru in your party, which means two things (aside from Mitsuru making a great supplementary healer). First, you get someone who is way better at scanning targets. Second, you get the "knock down" command in the tactics menu. That command is the single most useful tactic in the game (aside from Heal/Support, depending on the situation.). When you set a party member to "Knock Down", if they knock an enemy down, rather than trying to plaster the same enemy with hits, they'll try and knock over an enemy that is standing, and so on, until all the enemies are down. I don't know why it wasn't included in the beginning of the game, but it shows up very early on, so whatever (Trust me, I have my fair share of complaints about this game, despite my absolute adoration for it as a whole.). Basically, if you can manage your tactics menu effectively, you're set for life, and after a while, it can become second nature. I had a hard time transitioning to P4 because I had gotten so used to just giving my comrades vague orders and let them think for themselves.
4. Scan every enemy the first chance you get. If you don't scan, you can't strategize. And that's what the game is all about. Like I said before, I made liberal use of the MegaTen wiki, and it has every tartarus guardian there is, their abilities, strengths and weaknesses. That helps a lot.
I can understand the complaint about the level design. There's only so much you can do with randomly generated dungeons. But the environments get a lot more colorful immediately after the 2nd block. It gets slightly less old. But it is still repetitive as fuck. I still think tartarus was bland as shit (though still brilliant in some aspects, like the final block that opens up with level 90+ enemies so you can break the hell out of your party). What I loved is once you get the hang of the combat, the game starts testing your limits. all the boss battles feel like puzzles, and I thought that was awesome. The game was about strategy, and it made sure you mastered it in order to progress.
I know plenty of people who hate this game. The battle music is more obnoxious than a four year old screaming into a hearing aid at full volume. This game was not the best game ever made. It's just actually pretty okay. But if you know where to look, it can be an extremely rewarding experience. So I hope you will keep this all in mind and give the game another shot. If not, whatever. I just want people to share the enjoyment you can get out of this game. Because it's there.
But don't go into a MegaTen game expecting a typical JRPG. Because that's far from what you'll get. They're pretty crazy and complex.
P.S. If you make it far enough, watch out for the Natural Dancer guardian. Only enemy in the game who made me stop playing for an extended period. He's some bullshit. Look for some advice on him on gamefaqs or something. He drove me nuts. But with help, he isn't much of a problem.
I could see how the game isn't appealing to everyone, honestly. Your review is probably how a lot of people unfarmiliar with the game are but you should keep a few considerations in mind post-review:
A) You're playing a hybrid Life Simulation and PRG game. It's supposed to involve things like maintaining relationships with people, which also actually directly impact the rpg gameplay logistics, so it's not just some 'minigame' they flesh out just to keep you occupied.
B) It's lame to make an assumption about an entire genre because you didn't like one of the games.
Ever since people complained about the elevator loading screens in Mass Effect 1 (which were awesome at the time because then your squadmates talked, but at the same time, really fast PCs wouldn't have an advantage at skipping past them) loading screens are the thing again. Lame.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting single-player to have such a well-done story after playing co-op. You're probably right about the difficulty as well. There were only a couple really tricky ones in single-player, and one of them was just me not seeing a wall on the ceiling.
And seriously, they absolutely need to learn how to implement some sort of streaming loading. Or even just load the next level while you're on the current one, or load on the elevator while glados is talking. Anything but a boring loading screen.
The difficulty curve is quite steep if you try getting near perfect scores, but I suppose I'm just a big fan of puzzle games (Boxlife, Pictobits, and Pushmo were great time sinks for me). As for the rewarding aspect of Boxlife, it may have to do more with the factory part of the game. When you play that, you earn money and get promoted when you do well. The game also automatically improves your "box life" on the top screen in the main menu, so there's that visual reward there.
Actually, I bought Boxlife last year when the 3DS was updated to allow DSiWare. I only got about halfway through the standard mode before consistent failure led me to give up. Something about the game just wasn't clicking for me. But I'm tempted to try again now that I've surmounted the challenges in Pictobits that I thought would be too much for me.
I'm not sure I'd say Boxlife is more intense or rewarding, but it's got its own special kind of frustration going on. I thought it was a bit like taking a standardized test, where my eyes are darting between the ticking clock and the current problem, thinking "What am I missing here?"
Didn't find out about the Art Style series until I got my 3DS and was looking through the eShop, but they're great fun. While I do like Pictobits, I find Boxlife much more rewarding. It's a little more intense, given that you have time limits on everything, but the concept is easy enough that one shouldn't have a problem until the later levels.
Playing through this more, I pretty much agree with your overall assessment. I came away just a little more positive since it's now clear that they're going to keep supporting and updating the game for a while.
It really can be fun since there's so much variety and potential, but too much of it is the same. Almost the entirety of the fun comes along with the entire source of the frustration, which is the difficulty. You have to be so incredibly careful not to die (assuming you're playing on default permadeath mode) that it's both invigorating to keep living and progressing yet massively frustrating when you die due to some novel or random element. In my last death, I was as cheap as possible with vanish/teleport skills yet still died to some massive-range spell that stayed on my character and randomly gibbed me.
And the game still does a terrible job teaching you how to play and improve its basic mechanics. The basic game speedup (key "=") and autoloot are absolutely necessary, and should be the default options, if not explained/shown to us immediately. Inventory management is also a pain. Your bag should probably just be straight doubled in size to avoid having to backtrack to sell while in the midst of exploring.
I played this a bit more after updating, and it does seem to run a good deal better now, at least. It also looks like they're going to keep continuing support on this game for a while, so it looks to be a fairly solid investment.
A "Portal" movie would be awesome. I saw the fan made movie. Nice, but it really doesn't fit with the story. Sigorney Weaver should play the part of Chelle.
I am SO glad I was not the only one that got stuck on this. I swear I went round and round in circles for what felt like WEEKS (it probably wasn't that long really)
Glad I stuck with it though. I really enjoyed that you had to *think* about who would want each item in the trading sequence, rather than having your hand held the whole time.
I killed the final boss twice, just so I could see the final scene again.
I agree with you..
I always wanted to play this game but i never had the time to download it
i checked out game rankings and this game ranked 3rd...
then i decided to give it a shot, and wow.! this game rocks!
what i loved the most about this game is the storyline, though some dialogues are repetitive (p-3 portable only). this is the very first game i ever played with an entertainingly long story. ( Oh I love the Plot! )
now to battle.
i like it, it's a lot like final fantasy XIII ( which i totally loved ) i don't have experiences with P3 on PS2 even though i have that console...
and wait.! did the author just say the battle "sucks"!? wew... the in game battle is designed for the players to have a more strategic feel of the game... if he likes hack and slash , rpg , MOBA. (whatever) then why play this game??...
This is a really entertaining Blog that you've put up there. I registered to your Site's RSS feed and hope you write more stuff that are equally nice.
Cheers ..
Opinions are a thing on their own. In fact, they are fully apart from being fully developed conceptions of the world. Yours, unfortunately, means nothing. Do not speak of that which you know little about.
What is there other than gameplay in Cave Story? Were you expecting a great story or a choice making system that can lead onto barely off linear paths? You forget that it was designed to be simple, and it accomplishes that well. Your cynicism toward a remake of a freeware game from 2004 is a little off base.
You're ignorant preference for mainstream games like Mass Effect 3 is sickening. This game, which is far grom perfect, is not worth being called such. What about the deluge of DLC? What about the lack of meaning of your choices? What about the poor, unsatisfying ending? Greg Noe, your time is over.
Certainly seems like an extremely unique game. I haven't seen this kind of children's book art before in a game, as far as I remember.
And now they just added a free expansion and workshop support on Steam. I really like how they're continuing support on it.
(And it's only $2.50 for the complete game right now)
ah the sega dreamcast so many innovations including online sega net the vmu the free genre and of course button mashing from scenes in shenmue thats why the dreamcast is the best system ever
This was one of the games I got free from the PSN as an apology for that 2 weeks of downtime they had a while back. Since I wasn't playing online at the time at all, I totally didn't even notice but I gladly downloaded the 2 free games. I probably should go back and play this, if I ever get back into gaming. I've been so non-motivated to game since the third kid decided to suck that last bit of energy I had at the end of the day. I pushed through the pain though and played like 100 hours of Dark Souls (got it for V-Day from the wife) and haven't turned on my machines in over a month. I miss it, but I can't get up the motivation to go jump into yet another 10-100 hour commitment. How depressing is that? The wife is trying too. She bought me Diablo 3 for our anniversary (even after I told her i probably wouldn't play it). And here it sits next to me, sad and alone.
Too bad you missed out on that fancy red lightning. In a world full of unlikable people, isn't being the bad guy the ethical thing to do? I'd like to think my cartoonishly evil decisions were just a fun way of ridding the world of jerks like Cole and Trish.
A lot of your problems are actually easily remedied in-game. I'm not going to be an ass and call you an idiot. If you hate the game that's fine. But I think you should try a few things before you give up.
1. Save often. There's usually only about 10-20 floors between guardians (which are the floors you can teleport to from the ground floor.) I learned that the hard way. Don't be afraid of going back to the ground floor and losing progress. Your party's HP/SP is completely replenished whenever you go back.
2. With those one shot snakes, whatever attack is one-shotting you, find a persona that can block that. I used the MegaTen wiki and some online persona fusion guides religiously. The game is about strategy. There is a way to counter everything. If it's light/dark attacks, there's plenty of personas that can counter those effectively, and you come across party members that can do that a bit later on.
3. If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be on the cusp of having Mitsuru in your party, which means two things (aside from Mitsuru making a great supplementary healer). First, you get someone who is way better at scanning targets. Second, you get the "knock down" command in the tactics menu. That command is the single most useful tactic in the game (aside from Heal/Support, depending on the situation.). When you set a party member to "Knock Down", if they knock an enemy down, rather than trying to plaster the same enemy with hits, they'll try and knock over an enemy that is standing, and so on, until all the enemies are down. I don't know why it wasn't included in the beginning of the game, but it shows up very early on, so whatever (Trust me, I have my fair share of complaints about this game, despite my absolute adoration for it as a whole.). Basically, if you can manage your tactics menu effectively, you're set for life, and after a while, it can become second nature. I had a hard time transitioning to P4 because I had gotten so used to just giving my comrades vague orders and let them think for themselves.
4. Scan every enemy the first chance you get. If you don't scan, you can't strategize. And that's what the game is all about. Like I said before, I made liberal use of the MegaTen wiki, and it has every tartarus guardian there is, their abilities, strengths and weaknesses. That helps a lot.
I can understand the complaint about the level design. There's only so much you can do with randomly generated dungeons. But the environments get a lot more colorful immediately after the 2nd block. It gets slightly less old. But it is still repetitive as fuck. I still think tartarus was bland as shit (though still brilliant in some aspects, like the final block that opens up with level 90+ enemies so you can break the hell out of your party). What I loved is once you get the hang of the combat, the game starts testing your limits. all the boss battles feel like puzzles, and I thought that was awesome. The game was about strategy, and it made sure you mastered it in order to progress.
I know plenty of people who hate this game. The battle music is more obnoxious than a four year old screaming into a hearing aid at full volume. This game was not the best game ever made. It's just actually pretty okay. But if you know where to look, it can be an extremely rewarding experience. So I hope you will keep this all in mind and give the game another shot. If not, whatever. I just want people to share the enjoyment you can get out of this game. Because it's there.
But don't go into a MegaTen game expecting a typical JRPG. Because that's far from what you'll get. They're pretty crazy and complex.
P.S. If you make it far enough, watch out for the Natural Dancer guardian. Only enemy in the game who made me stop playing for an extended period. He's some bullshit. Look for some advice on him on gamefaqs or something. He drove me nuts. But with help, he isn't much of a problem.
I could see how the game isn't appealing to everyone, honestly. Your review is probably how a lot of people unfarmiliar with the game are but you should keep a few considerations in mind post-review:
A) You're playing a hybrid Life Simulation and PRG game. It's supposed to involve things like maintaining relationships with people, which also actually directly impact the rpg gameplay logistics, so it's not just some 'minigame' they flesh out just to keep you occupied.
B) It's lame to make an assumption about an entire genre because you didn't like one of the games.
C) Did you even listen to the music ;D?
Well, they're dumb. And you could simply cut off conversation once it's loaded anyway. Like "blahblahblah -well, we're here."
There are so many ways you could go about it that would be an improvement, especially from a team like Valve.
Ever since people complained about the elevator loading screens in Mass Effect 1 (which were awesome at the time because then your squadmates talked, but at the same time, really fast PCs wouldn't have an advantage at skipping past them) loading screens are the thing again. Lame.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting single-player to have such a well-done story after playing co-op. You're probably right about the difficulty as well. There were only a couple really tricky ones in single-player, and one of them was just me not seeing a wall on the ceiling.
And seriously, they absolutely need to learn how to implement some sort of streaming loading. Or even just load the next level while you're on the current one, or load on the elevator while glados is talking. Anything but a boring loading screen.
The difficulty curve is quite steep if you try getting near perfect scores, but I suppose I'm just a big fan of puzzle games (Boxlife, Pictobits, and Pushmo were great time sinks for me). As for the rewarding aspect of Boxlife, it may have to do more with the factory part of the game. When you play that, you earn money and get promoted when you do well. The game also automatically improves your "box life" on the top screen in the main menu, so there's that visual reward there.
Actually, I bought Boxlife last year when the 3DS was updated to allow DSiWare. I only got about halfway through the standard mode before consistent failure led me to give up. Something about the game just wasn't clicking for me. But I'm tempted to try again now that I've surmounted the challenges in Pictobits that I thought would be too much for me.
I'm not sure I'd say Boxlife is more intense or rewarding, but it's got its own special kind of frustration going on. I thought it was a bit like taking a standardized test, where my eyes are darting between the ticking clock and the current problem, thinking "What am I missing here?"
Didn't find out about the Art Style series until I got my 3DS and was looking through the eShop, but they're great fun. While I do like Pictobits, I find Boxlife much more rewarding. It's a little more intense, given that you have time limits on everything, but the concept is easy enough that one shouldn't have a problem until the later levels.
Playing through this more, I pretty much agree with your overall assessment. I came away just a little more positive since it's now clear that they're going to keep supporting and updating the game for a while.
It really can be fun since there's so much variety and potential, but too much of it is the same. Almost the entirety of the fun comes along with the entire source of the frustration, which is the difficulty. You have to be so incredibly careful not to die (assuming you're playing on default permadeath mode) that it's both invigorating to keep living and progressing yet massively frustrating when you die due to some novel or random element. In my last death, I was as cheap as possible with vanish/teleport skills yet still died to some massive-range spell that stayed on my character and randomly gibbed me.
And the game still does a terrible job teaching you how to play and improve its basic mechanics. The basic game speedup (key "=") and autoloot are absolutely necessary, and should be the default options, if not explained/shown to us immediately. Inventory management is also a pain. Your bag should probably just be straight doubled in size to avoid having to backtrack to sell while in the midst of exploring.
No opinion is a fact so that anyone of them could be considered fact. Just one of the paradoxes that comes with being human.
cool article that is
I played this a bit more after updating, and it does seem to run a good deal better now, at least. It also looks like they're going to keep continuing support on this game for a while, so it looks to be a fairly solid investment.
I dunno, I think online leaderboards have brought scores back into relevance, at least to some extent.
A "Portal" movie would be awesome. I saw the fan made movie. Nice, but it really doesn't fit with the story. Sigorney Weaver should play the part of Chelle.
I am SO glad I was not the only one that got stuck on this. I swear I went round and round in circles for what felt like WEEKS (it probably wasn't that long really)
Glad I stuck with it though. I really enjoyed that you had to *think* about who would want each item in the trading sequence, rather than having your hand held the whole time.
I killed the final boss twice, just so I could see the final scene again.
I agree with you..
I always wanted to play this game but i never had the time to download it
i checked out game rankings and this game ranked 3rd...
then i decided to give it a shot, and wow.! this game rocks!
what i loved the most about this game is the storyline, though some dialogues are repetitive (p-3 portable only). this is the very first game i ever played with an entertainingly long story. ( Oh I love the Plot! )
now to battle.
i like it, it's a lot like final fantasy XIII ( which i totally loved ) i don't have experiences with P3 on PS2 even though i have that console...
and wait.! did the author just say the battle "sucks"!? wew... the in game battle is designed for the players to have a more strategic feel of the game... if he likes hack and slash , rpg , MOBA. (whatever) then why play this game??...
This is a really entertaining Blog that you've put up there. I registered to your Site's RSS feed and hope you write more stuff that are equally nice.
Cheers ..
Opinions are a thing on their own. In fact, they are fully apart from being fully developed conceptions of the world. Yours, unfortunately, means nothing. Do not speak of that which you know little about.
What is there other than gameplay in Cave Story? Were you expecting a great story or a choice making system that can lead onto barely off linear paths? You forget that it was designed to be simple, and it accomplishes that well. Your cynicism toward a remake of a freeware game from 2004 is a little off base.
You're ignorant preference for mainstream games like Mass Effect 3 is sickening. This game, which is far grom perfect, is not worth being called such. What about the deluge of DLC? What about the lack of meaning of your choices? What about the poor, unsatisfying ending? Greg Noe, your time is over.